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	<title>Comments on: Freelance Writing Jobs – November 24, 2009</title>
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		<title>By: Writing Pay &#8211; How Low Will You Go? — Get Paid to Write Online</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12599</link>
		<dc:creator>Writing Pay &#8211; How Low Will You Go? — Get Paid to Write Online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] minimum.  It is definitely nice to have another filtered source for writing leads. (Check it out: higher paid writing job leads ). Jenn&#8217;s site aims to help writers stand apart in a crowd.  I agree that differentiation [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] minimum.  It is definitely nice to have another filtered source for writing leads. (Check it out: higher paid writing job leads ). Jenn&#8217;s site aims to help writers stand apart in a crowd.  I agree that differentiation [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12581</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:46:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3408#comment-12581</guid>
		<description>Clint - OMG, you know her? She&#039;s such a bitch! :P

Anne - As we go along and the new series becomes a bit more established, one of the goals is to work more directly with hiring companies / individuals. With strict minimum pay limits, there aren&#039;t going to be many advertised gigs that specifically mention pay rates (this happens all the time in the webmaster market for example, where buyers don&#039;t want to be hit with a swarm of offers from unqualified writers just because they&#039;re paying more than $5). We&#039;re taking steps to turn AFW into a more direct market link between higher paying clients and professional writers who value their time by working to pull in unique ads from those who want more specialized reach, while combining that with new features on the writer side in the New Year. It&#039;s going to be a gradual process over the next several months. 

@Star - The bid sites themselves aren&#039;t a rush to the bottom. Remember, you only bid as low as you choose to. The site are nothing but platforms, and as with all platforms it&#039;s all in how you use them. While I find Odesk disgusting for the very specific reason mentioned above, that doesn&#039;t translate to all bidding sites. They can be used effectively. The keys are generally being willing to stand your ground by bidding your regular rates and using them as a supplemental job source rather than a primary one (although I&#039;m sure there are some exceptions). As with any kind of job application or negotiation, it&#039;s up the writer to prove their work is actually &lt;em&gt;worth&lt;/em&gt; what they&#039;re charging rather than simply lowering rates, thinking it&#039;s the only way to compete. Are the bulk of the gigs garbage there? Sure. Some are complete jokes. But the same can be said of any forum, classified site, etc. That doesn&#039;t mean there aren&#039;t gems there if you go about looking for them in the right ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint &#8211; OMG, you know her? She&#8217;s such a bitch! :P</p>
<p>Anne &#8211; As we go along and the new series becomes a bit more established, one of the goals is to work more directly with hiring companies / individuals. With strict minimum pay limits, there aren&#8217;t going to be many advertised gigs that specifically mention pay rates (this happens all the time in the webmaster market for example, where buyers don&#8217;t want to be hit with a swarm of offers from unqualified writers just because they&#8217;re paying more than $5). We&#8217;re taking steps to turn AFW into a more direct market link between higher paying clients and professional writers who value their time by working to pull in unique ads from those who want more specialized reach, while combining that with new features on the writer side in the New Year. It&#8217;s going to be a gradual process over the next several months. </p>
<p>@Star &#8211; The bid sites themselves aren&#8217;t a rush to the bottom. Remember, you only bid as low as you choose to. The site are nothing but platforms, and as with all platforms it&#8217;s all in how you use them. While I find Odesk disgusting for the very specific reason mentioned above, that doesn&#8217;t translate to all bidding sites. They can be used effectively. The keys are generally being willing to stand your ground by bidding your regular rates and using them as a supplemental job source rather than a primary one (although I&#8217;m sure there are some exceptions). As with any kind of job application or negotiation, it&#8217;s up the writer to prove their work is actually <em>worth</em> what they&#8217;re charging rather than simply lowering rates, thinking it&#8217;s the only way to compete. Are the bulk of the gigs garbage there? Sure. Some are complete jokes. But the same can be said of any forum, classified site, etc. That doesn&#8217;t mean there aren&#8217;t gems there if you go about looking for them in the right ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Star</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12577</link>
		<dc:creator>Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 17:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3408#comment-12577</guid>
		<description>Great new job posting. oDesk blows--all those bid sites are a rush to the bottom. Why do writers do this to themselves? And then, as we know, this slops onto the rest of us with low rates and high expectations of huge amts of crap cranking. Speaking of--my kid was being terrorized by wasps on our pond and went to a DOZEN sites trying to get anti-wasp advice, which is apparently produced by people who have never seen a wasp, built a wasp trap, used an exterminator, or anything--just pulling stuff out of their rear, undoubtedly for $3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great new job posting. oDesk blows&#8211;all those bid sites are a rush to the bottom. Why do writers do this to themselves? And then, as we know, this slops onto the rest of us with low rates and high expectations of huge amts of crap cranking. Speaking of&#8211;my kid was being terrorized by wasps on our pond and went to a DOZEN sites trying to get anti-wasp advice, which is apparently produced by people who have never seen a wasp, built a wasp trap, used an exterminator, or anything&#8211;just pulling stuff out of their rear, undoubtedly for $3.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12575</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3408#comment-12575</guid>
		<description>Thanks Anne! For this round of job posting, no, except that Jenn Mattern woman. In the future, I do expect to have more contact with them. It&#039;s a ball that I&#039;ve set rolling that should yield some great results in the future.

I did mean to mention in the post (and forgot, of course) that if anyone applies for these jobs and finds them to be bunk or far lower than advertised to let me know, and I&#039;ll take them down or put them on a list to avoid. I do not like to repeat mistakes because there&#039;s far too many out there I haven&#039;t made yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Anne! For this round of job posting, no, except that Jenn Mattern woman. In the future, I do expect to have more contact with them. It&#8217;s a ball that I&#8217;ve set rolling that should yield some great results in the future.</p>
<p>I did mean to mention in the post (and forgot, of course) that if anyone applies for these jobs and finds them to be bunk or far lower than advertised to let me know, and I&#8217;ll take them down or put them on a list to avoid. I do not like to repeat mistakes because there&#8217;s far too many out there I haven&#8217;t made yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Wayman</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12574</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Wayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3408#comment-12574</guid>
		<description>Great start Clint. Are you in touch with these publishers at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great start Clint. Are you in touch with these publishers at all?</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/24/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-%e2%80%93-november-24-2009/comment-page-1/#comment-12570</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3408#comment-12570</guid>
		<description>Thanks Clint! 

Odesk is definitely one of my biggest pet peeves. Might be fine for those outside the U.S. but here it starts to cross a pretty serious line between what clients can and cannot do versus employers. If someone wants to control where, when, how, etc. you do your work, then they&#039;re crossing into employer territory (which means they have different legal requirements, taxes they have to pay instead of it all being on the freelancer, etc.). As per info directly from the IRS, &quot;If an evaluation system measures the details of how the work is performed, then these factors would point to an employee.&quot; When it comes to contractors, evaluation is based on the end result; not the process. They also cross the line in letting clients require that the software be used before hiring someone, as they&#039;re exercising control over the tools to be used (another signal that they&#039;re crossing into employee territory and not technically hiring contractors / freelancers). 

While it&#039;s bad enough that the buyers there use it, it&#039;s far worse imo that a site like Odesk is supporting this behavior on a large scale. Their system really pushes it, and until that changes they&#039;ll never be supported here. Given that they&#039;re based in the U.S. I&#039;m really not sure how they haven&#039;t been stopped from pursuing this practice yet. I also love how in their manifesto they act like they&#039;re in a position to determine what rights providers and buyers have, even if they could be contrary to &lt;em&gt;actual&lt;/em&gt; rights. Newsflash folks: when you take on greater risks and increased taxes by becoming a freelancer (and clients take on a decrease in cost, overhead, etc. as a perk of working with you instead of actual employees), you do have specific rights. Read up on them (and not through Odesk). 

That particular job is hilarious though. Not only do they expect a lot writing-wise for very little pay, but then they also expect you to take tests and continue to promote their site for them (for no added pay of course). Absolutely insane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Clint! </p>
<p>Odesk is definitely one of my biggest pet peeves. Might be fine for those outside the U.S. but here it starts to cross a pretty serious line between what clients can and cannot do versus employers. If someone wants to control where, when, how, etc. you do your work, then they&#8217;re crossing into employer territory (which means they have different legal requirements, taxes they have to pay instead of it all being on the freelancer, etc.). As per info directly from the IRS, &#8220;If an evaluation system measures the details of how the work is performed, then these factors would point to an employee.&#8221; When it comes to contractors, evaluation is based on the end result; not the process. They also cross the line in letting clients require that the software be used before hiring someone, as they&#8217;re exercising control over the tools to be used (another signal that they&#8217;re crossing into employee territory and not technically hiring contractors / freelancers). </p>
<p>While it&#8217;s bad enough that the buyers there use it, it&#8217;s far worse imo that a site like Odesk is supporting this behavior on a large scale. Their system really pushes it, and until that changes they&#8217;ll never be supported here. Given that they&#8217;re based in the U.S. I&#8217;m really not sure how they haven&#8217;t been stopped from pursuing this practice yet. I also love how in their manifesto they act like they&#8217;re in a position to determine what rights providers and buyers have, even if they could be contrary to <em>actual</em> rights. Newsflash folks: when you take on greater risks and increased taxes by becoming a freelancer (and clients take on a decrease in cost, overhead, etc. as a perk of working with you instead of actual employees), you do have specific rights. Read up on them (and not through Odesk). </p>
<p>That particular job is hilarious though. Not only do they expect a lot writing-wise for very little pay, but then they also expect you to take tests and continue to promote their site for them (for no added pay of course). Absolutely insane.</p>
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