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	<title>Comments on: Freelance Writing Jobs No More &#8211; Sort Of</title>
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	<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/</link>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13857</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-13857</guid>
		<description>Thanks Lori. I just want to clarify -- I don&#039;t have an issue with online jobs in general. I actually earn my entire living writing for the Web (business blogging, Web copywriting, etc.), and a nice living at that. So it can be done. It&#039;s just about finding gigs that really do offer value to you, in addition to value for the client. It&#039;s unfortunate that the Web has led to so many crap gigs, but then again it&#039;s also led to enormous growth in business writing, corporate blogging, and other much higher-paying work even though most of it isn&#039;t seen on the job boards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Lori. I just want to clarify &#8212; I don&#8217;t have an issue with online jobs in general. I actually earn my entire living writing for the Web (business blogging, Web copywriting, etc.), and a nice living at that. So it can be done. It&#8217;s just about finding gigs that really do offer value to you, in addition to value for the client. It&#8217;s unfortunate that the Web has led to so many crap gigs, but then again it&#8217;s also led to enormous growth in business writing, corporate blogging, and other much higher-paying work even though most of it isn&#8217;t seen on the job boards.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13854</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-13854</guid>
		<description>LOVE the minimum idea, Jenn. This entire post, in fact, is great. You&#039;ve hit it exactly - established writers don&#039;t rely on these jobs, but the minimum you&#039;ve set is a great stepping stone for beginning writers. 

I love also what you&#039;ve said about complacency. Careers - and that&#039;s what we&#039;re building here - take work. You have to want more in order to achieve it, but also you have to put action behind it. I think it&#039;s terrific that you&#039;re helping beginning writers understand that online jobs are not their sole source of work, nor should they be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOVE the minimum idea, Jenn. This entire post, in fact, is great. You&#8217;ve hit it exactly &#8211; established writers don&#8217;t rely on these jobs, but the minimum you&#8217;ve set is a great stepping stone for beginning writers. </p>
<p>I love also what you&#8217;ve said about complacency. Careers &#8211; and that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re building here &#8211; take work. You have to want more in order to achieve it, but also you have to put action behind it. I think it&#8217;s terrific that you&#8217;re helping beginning writers understand that online jobs are not their sole source of work, nor should they be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13058</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-13058</guid>
		<description>I care much less about what people choose to do themselves, and am more sick and tired of so-called professionals giving terrible business advice to newbies who want more than the mediocre. It&#039;s fine by me if other writers want to undervalue themselves. Not my problem. But I also won&#039;t cater to them here. I&#039;d rather spend my time on writers who are interested in doing the best they can rather than simply the best someone writing for $15 themselves tells them they can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I care much less about what people choose to do themselves, and am more sick and tired of so-called professionals giving terrible business advice to newbies who want more than the mediocre. It&#8217;s fine by me if other writers want to undervalue themselves. Not my problem. But I also won&#8217;t cater to them here. I&#8217;d rather spend my time on writers who are interested in doing the best they can rather than simply the best someone writing for $15 themselves tells them they can.</p>
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		<title>By: Star</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13056</link>
		<dc:creator>Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 16:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-13056</guid>
		<description>I have decided I am sick of writers undervaluing themselves and other writers and am only going to sites like this one that try to educate would-be employers and newcomers to what a writer contributes and is worth. I was checking the other sites--just in case...but don&#039;t think I ever got a job from them...and think of the time...Now, I am going back to networking, pitching, and calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have decided I am sick of writers undervaluing themselves and other writers and am only going to sites like this one that try to educate would-be employers and newcomers to what a writer contributes and is worth. I was checking the other sites&#8211;just in case&#8230;but don&#8217;t think I ever got a job from them&#8230;and think of the time&#8230;Now, I am going back to networking, pitching, and calling.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Tice</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12551</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Tice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12551</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m new to this list...but congratulations on setting a $50 floor for your ads. I think it&#039;s a great idea. Below this level there is just a lot of exploitative and scammy stuff. I recently started a petition for writers who pledge to  not take assignments for any less than that. I&#039;m organizing writers to raise public awareness about big content mills and their clients, and the rates paid there.

You can read my blog about it, &quot;7 Reasons Why I Won&#039;t Write $15 Blogs&quot; here: http://caroltice.com/blog/27 

I applaud your cutting the garbage ads and helping writers focus on gigs that pay at least enough for a meal out. I finally developed my own system for wading through the online job boards without letting it take up too much of my day, which you can read about here: http://caroltice.com/blog/20 

As you say, the really good stuff is out there, in in-person and online networking, in cold calling and otherwise marketing your business. I think the very low-paying gigs become a distraction to many writers who would be better advised to spend their time marketing. That&#039;s what I tell my mentees to do. Just say no! And work on your own business plan.

With your site, it&#039;ll be easier to find the good stuff! Thanks again --

Carol Tice
http://www.caroltice.com
http://Twitter.com/TiceWrites</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m new to this list&#8230;but congratulations on setting a $50 floor for your ads. I think it&#8217;s a great idea. Below this level there is just a lot of exploitative and scammy stuff. I recently started a petition for writers who pledge to  not take assignments for any less than that. I&#8217;m organizing writers to raise public awareness about big content mills and their clients, and the rates paid there.</p>
<p>You can read my blog about it, &#8220;7 Reasons Why I Won&#8217;t Write $15 Blogs&#8221; here: <a href="http://caroltice.com/blog/27" rel="nofollow">http://caroltice.com/blog/27</a> </p>
<p>I applaud your cutting the garbage ads and helping writers focus on gigs that pay at least enough for a meal out. I finally developed my own system for wading through the online job boards without letting it take up too much of my day, which you can read about here: <a href="http://caroltice.com/blog/20" rel="nofollow">http://caroltice.com/blog/20</a> </p>
<p>As you say, the really good stuff is out there, in in-person and online networking, in cold calling and otherwise marketing your business. I think the very low-paying gigs become a distraction to many writers who would be better advised to spend their time marketing. That&#8217;s what I tell my mentees to do. Just say no! And work on your own business plan.</p>
<p>With your site, it&#8217;ll be easier to find the good stuff! Thanks again &#8211;</p>
<p>Carol Tice<br />
<a href="http://www.caroltice.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.caroltice.com</a><br />
<a href="http://Twitter.com/TiceWrites" rel="nofollow">http://Twitter.com/TiceWrites</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jessie Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12514</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessie Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12514</guid>
		<description>Mentions rates and the commenting ensues. You deserve that pride Jenn, you are absolutely the reason I&#039;ve got to where I am. Of course, right away I encounter a turd that tells me that there&#039;s no value in what I do and goes along with that highway robbery mentality mentioned in one of your earlier posts.

I looked through the WWG again and felt great to see that, hey, that just isn&#039;t my target market. I&#039;m trying to get more focused now because I want to work self-starters...I need to find the ones that will both understand the value and understand the need for what I provide. Someone running a two-digit startup cost MLM / franchise whatever deal isn&#039;t that market. 

So get all shivery Jenn :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mentions rates and the commenting ensues. You deserve that pride Jenn, you are absolutely the reason I&#8217;ve got to where I am. Of course, right away I encounter a turd that tells me that there&#8217;s no value in what I do and goes along with that highway robbery mentality mentioned in one of your earlier posts.</p>
<p>I looked through the WWG again and felt great to see that, hey, that just isn&#8217;t my target market. I&#8217;m trying to get more focused now because I want to work self-starters&#8230;I need to find the ones that will both understand the value and understand the need for what I provide. Someone running a two-digit startup cost MLM / franchise whatever deal isn&#8217;t that market. </p>
<p>So get all shivery Jenn :D</p>
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		<title>By: Star</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12504</link>
		<dc:creator>Star</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12504</guid>
		<description>As always, the listings are not for experienced freelancers. They’re perfectly capable of going out and getting their own gigs through established networks and their platform without trolling job listings here or anywhere else.

But we check listings, too--in addition to networking, querying, cold calling, sending out our brochures, letters of intro, etc. And we are getting hurt, too, by the cratering rates--so this is so welcome, I cannot tell you. I will come every day to your site, get your numbers up if I can, even tho you will list jobs one day a week. This effort should be supported.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, the listings are not for experienced freelancers. They’re perfectly capable of going out and getting their own gigs through established networks and their platform without trolling job listings here or anywhere else.</p>
<p>But we check listings, too&#8211;in addition to networking, querying, cold calling, sending out our brochures, letters of intro, etc. And we are getting hurt, too, by the cratering rates&#8211;so this is so welcome, I cannot tell you. I will come every day to your site, get your numbers up if I can, even tho you will list jobs one day a week. This effort should be supported.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12497</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12497</guid>
		<description>Lisa,

I agree that $50 is too low. But we&#039;re not talking magazine features that take days to weeks to complete (where $1.00 per word and more is not only much more reasonable as you noted, but also still very achievable). The $50 threshold is in reference to the type of quick Web content that people are often accepting now at $5 - 15 with the justification that the low per-project pay is okay because the work is quick. We want to show that you can get paid much more than those rates for the same kind of time commitment. You&#039;re not going to see more labor-intensive gigs listed here at that low of a rate. Remember, $50 is the bare &lt;em&gt;minimum&lt;/em&gt; to be eligible for inclusion. It&#039;s not a representation of what all of the gigs and markets will look like. 

The point of the change is that we&#039;re not going to offer any support to the bottom of the barrel client crowd, and are only posting listings that are a serious step up for those low-pay writers who want to make some progress. That said, we&#039;re obviously still limited by the scope of the gigs that are publicly advertised, and as I&#039;m sure you know the vast majority of great gigs are not. As always, the listings are not for experienced freelancers. They&#039;re perfectly capable of going out and getting their own gigs through established networks and their platform without trolling job listings here or anywhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa,</p>
<p>I agree that $50 is too low. But we&#8217;re not talking magazine features that take days to weeks to complete (where $1.00 per word and more is not only much more reasonable as you noted, but also still very achievable). The $50 threshold is in reference to the type of quick Web content that people are often accepting now at $5 &#8211; 15 with the justification that the low per-project pay is okay because the work is quick. We want to show that you can get paid much more than those rates for the same kind of time commitment. You&#8217;re not going to see more labor-intensive gigs listed here at that low of a rate. Remember, $50 is the bare <em>minimum</em> to be eligible for inclusion. It&#8217;s not a representation of what all of the gigs and markets will look like. </p>
<p>The point of the change is that we&#8217;re not going to offer any support to the bottom of the barrel client crowd, and are only posting listings that are a serious step up for those low-pay writers who want to make some progress. That said, we&#8217;re obviously still limited by the scope of the gigs that are publicly advertised, and as I&#8217;m sure you know the vast majority of great gigs are not. As always, the listings are not for experienced freelancers. They&#8217;re perfectly capable of going out and getting their own gigs through established networks and their platform without trolling job listings here or anywhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12496</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12496</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d call this a baby step in the right direction, since $50 is pretty paltry.  When I sold my first article back in 1976, I received $35, and even then that wasn&#039;t much.  After making a few sales, I quickly found a market paying $350, and then moved up to the $1 a word markets.  And that was 33 years ago!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d call this a baby step in the right direction, since $50 is pretty paltry.  When I sold my first article back in 1976, I received $35, and even then that wasn&#8217;t much.  After making a few sales, I quickly found a market paying $350, and then moved up to the $1 a word markets.  And that was 33 years ago!</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Mattern</title>
		<link>http://allfreelancewriting.com/2009/11/18/freelance-writing-jobs/freelance-writing-job-ads/freelance-writing-jobs-no-more-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-12459</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Mattern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://allfreelancewriting.com/?p=3347#comment-12459</guid>
		<description>@Michelle - It was time to stop babying and coddling and time to get back to the mission at hand -- educating freelance writers about the business side of freelancing, and helping them make serious money in the process. It&#039;s always been the focus. The jobs were just a way to help newer writers save some time in trolling boards independently each day, but that&#039;s not the kind of hand-holding I want AFW to represent. Media Bistro and Journalism Jobs are definitely two of the better resources still available. Unfortunately though the lack of good freelance gigs there is coupled with intense competition. But LinkedIn is probably a great option for those who aren&#039;t already there. Even if they&#039;re not landing gigs directly from ads, they&#039;re still building their connections in the process by taking part in the community -- always a smart move. 

@Erik - Thanks! You painted a much better picture than I ever could have, and you&#039;re right on target!

@Star - It&#039;s a double-edged sword - lousy advertisers but also as much the writers&#039; fault for taking on the gigs in the first place. It was always important to me to help writers in that rut move beyond it if they wanted to. Some simply don&#039;t. For those who do, we have plenty of information to get them in the right direction, and for those who don&#039;t, well, they&#039;re welcome to go elsewhere for a pat on the back when they get a $15 gig. AFW isn&#039;t about trying to be everything to everyone. We&#039;re about the forward-thinking freelancers who are ready to get out of the sandbox, start looking for more, and who are willing to go out there and actually get it. There&#039;s nothing wrong with the hobby writer type of crowd. It&#039;s just not who AFW is speaking to. And you&#039;re right on about educating clients. In fact, I&#039;ll be releasing a paper on that very topic within the next couple of months (looking at the differences quality writers make versus ridiculously cheap SEO content, and why both older authority sites and many new ones go that route). 

So thank you for the applause, but I&#039;m not out for praise. Just doing something that should have been done a long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michelle &#8211; It was time to stop babying and coddling and time to get back to the mission at hand &#8212; educating freelance writers about the business side of freelancing, and helping them make serious money in the process. It&#8217;s always been the focus. The jobs were just a way to help newer writers save some time in trolling boards independently each day, but that&#8217;s not the kind of hand-holding I want AFW to represent. Media Bistro and Journalism Jobs are definitely two of the better resources still available. Unfortunately though the lack of good freelance gigs there is coupled with intense competition. But LinkedIn is probably a great option for those who aren&#8217;t already there. Even if they&#8217;re not landing gigs directly from ads, they&#8217;re still building their connections in the process by taking part in the community &#8212; always a smart move. </p>
<p>@Erik &#8211; Thanks! You painted a much better picture than I ever could have, and you&#8217;re right on target!</p>
<p>@Star &#8211; It&#8217;s a double-edged sword &#8211; lousy advertisers but also as much the writers&#8217; fault for taking on the gigs in the first place. It was always important to me to help writers in that rut move beyond it if they wanted to. Some simply don&#8217;t. For those who do, we have plenty of information to get them in the right direction, and for those who don&#8217;t, well, they&#8217;re welcome to go elsewhere for a pat on the back when they get a $15 gig. AFW isn&#8217;t about trying to be everything to everyone. We&#8217;re about the forward-thinking freelancers who are ready to get out of the sandbox, start looking for more, and who are willing to go out there and actually get it. There&#8217;s nothing wrong with the hobby writer type of crowd. It&#8217;s just not who AFW is speaking to. And you&#8217;re right on about educating clients. In fact, I&#8217;ll be releasing a paper on that very topic within the next couple of months (looking at the differences quality writers make versus ridiculously cheap SEO content, and why both older authority sites and many new ones go that route). </p>
<p>So thank you for the applause, but I&#8217;m not out for praise. Just doing something that should have been done a long time ago.</p>
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